[01:17] ooooook [01:17] we're discussing Acinonyx' manifesto today [01:17] guess everyone read that by now? [01:18] * Argumentus nods [01:18] if not, not a problem - I quote it :) [01:18] lol, yeah.. all 800 posts of it. ;) [01:18] * Xanthos nods [01:18] hehe [01:18] The microphone has Calindra now - she has a message from Acinonyx [01:18] * Argumentus has six pages of it in front of him :) [01:19] I'm reading it now [01:19] okie Aci could not be here today but he was kind enough to give us some guidelines and stuff [01:19] lol [01:19] *** Pippin-OffToMordor is now known as Pippin [01:19] I sent some of you copies of it but for the rest I will post it here [01:19] Acinonyx himself admits that the proposal is somewhat utopic and idealistic. But the idea of the manifesto is not to take it and implement as is, for that would be impossible, but it is instead something that HOL should strive for. [01:19] :D [01:19] We could put the entire proposal up for discussion right now but that would be a daunting and confusing as there is simply so much in it worthy of discussion. That is why Aci suggests that we take things step by step. He believes that the best place to start (and what is needed most right now) is to figure out how we wish to deal with complaints by students. [01:19] We figured that the problem right now is the following: [01:19] 1-students don't know WHO to complain to [01:19] 2-students don't know WHERE to complain [01:19] 3-students might be afraid of complaining [01:20] yeah [01:20] 4-students might feel that there is no point in complaning as nothing will be done [01:20] Rather than come up with radical solutions to these problems, we suggest that we use the facilities that HOL ALREADY provides to their FULL capacity. Rather than tear down the house, we simply need to renovate. [01:20] For example, a possible solution to problem 1 could be drumming into the students' heads the HOL hierchy of problems: [01:20] student-->prefect-->prof,HO [01:20] Students still might not know that telling a prefect is the first step to getting a problem solved and newbies may not know this either. [01:20] A possible solution for problem 2 could involve the use of the prefect board. When I first came up with the "ask a prefect" idea. It was meant for students to have an area where prefects could be reached at all times and for all sorts of problems. Not just for questions like ,"How do I get a broom?". [01:20] Students need to be made aware that the ASK A PREFECT board is a place where they can ALSO post complaints that they wish to be taken up through the HOL complaints hierarchy. [01:21] For problems 3 and 4, this is where Aci suggests that we need people in the school who are responsible for communications. (I think) he means that we should have people that are in charge of making sure that students are aware of the different ways of communicating complaints that are at their disposal. Also these people would make sure that the students are comfortable in using these methods. Anyway I believe that he outlines the possible roles [01:21] oopsies... [01:21] (I think) he means that we should have people that are in charge of making sure that students are aware of the different ways of communicating complaints that are at their disposal. Also these people would make sure that the students are comfortable in using these methods. Anyway I believe that he outlines the possible roles of such "communication people" in his manifesto. [01:21] So Finally, it would be great, if to start, we could discuss these ideas (or propose others) that could better aid the students that need to voice problems or complaints to us. Aci strongly felt that this is the first place to start. [01:21] et voila! [01:22] allrighty then! [01:22] :) [01:22] :D [01:22] (I can dcc copies of this to those who want one) [01:22] * Zeek raises his hand. [01:22] zeek? [01:22] you want a copy? [01:22] * Zeek nods. [01:23] *** Fraggle (andrew@139.57.226.149) has joined #titan [01:23] done ;) [01:23] * Zeek wonderes why hes talking in /me form. [01:23] thanks [01:23] (LOL!) [01:23] it's easier to read in .txt mode indeed [01:23] ok....... now here is what we have right now [01:24] 1. HOL Forum [01:24] Thanks Cal--I got it [01:24] there is an announcement board for important announcements for all of HOL [01:24] there is a classes board where profs are supposed to post stuff about their classes [01:25] I know people are supposed to check there, but I would guess that some of the newbies don't [01:25] Yes i was gonna say that. [01:25] there is a prefects board that is supposed to be the place for inter-house prefect discussion [01:25] yes Eeyore, they need to be told [01:25] Some might not even know what the boards are used for. [01:25] * CalAngel agrees with Zeek [01:25] board faq [01:25] I mean each board specificly, not how to use them. [01:25] all newbies do get welcome letters from the four houses [01:26] would it be possible to make the class sub are in to a main forum area? That might make it more prominent? [01:26] if yours is bad (or does not contain a meaningful FAQ, guideline whatever) - rewrite it! [01:26] yes but that is clearly not enough, especially if some ofteh folks here who are not newbies still have problems getting info [01:26] does it include all the needed info--I know they should read the FAQ, but... [01:26] Not everyone does. [01:26] right [01:26] exactly [01:27] If there is any way to spell things out even more clearly, I think that would be of help. I recently got involved in role-playing on MU* and was vonfused despite extesnive help files.:) [01:27] yes - Profs definitely need to make more use of the classes board [01:27] There should be some place(if there isnt already) where they list the names of all the boards and what they are used for. [01:27] *** Tanya (tanya.kirk@host62-7-171-18.webport.bt.net) has left #titan [01:27] *confused [01:27] *extesnive [01:27] ok - Zeek - good idea [01:28] like someone said above a board faq [01:28] :D [01:28] ker im assuming [01:28] I agree with Claire,and Aci was alos ofthe opinion that the procedures here (like what the boards are for) need to be drilled in, like maybe we can post a refresher not of some kind [01:28] lol [01:28] *also [01:28] haha [01:28] *note [01:28] good idea [01:28] yes but the drilling might not stick [01:28] right [01:28] *** Argumentus (Chris.d.ha@host213-122-201-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by RoadRunner))) [01:28] they need someplace that they can check [01:28] whenever they want [01:29] *** Argumentus (Chris.d.ha@host213-122-194-36.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #titan [01:29] wb [01:29] even for next years newbies... [01:29] each board has a subtitle describing its use to a certain extent [01:29] the fewer places they have to check, the better though [01:29] yes but they might not even go into the boards [01:29] if they dont know what they are used for [01:29] can it be simplified and put in one location--like the main HOL stuff [01:29] yes Zeek - but that has been solved long ago [01:29] ok [01:30] thats why i said 'if' [01:30] Rhiannon maintains the HOL news page - brilliantly! [01:30] yes [01:30] mmm [01:30] *nods* We love Rhiannon. A lot. [01:30] it's very easy to use [01:30] * Pippin applauds Rhi and hugs her very special Clone [01:30] *** Kimaire (Kimaire@pool-141-156-138-71.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #titan [01:30] every single important announcement is copied there, accessible also for students who have problems with the boards :) [01:30] * Rhiannon blushes [01:30] ohhhhh.. [01:30] Hi Kimaire! [01:30] and.. already since last December [01:30] hey Kim [01:30] hey Kim [01:30] hi [01:31] Hi Kim!! [01:31] Hiya Kim! [01:31] right but does anyone REALLY feel like the students don't know what the boards are for? What Aci and I really discussed were that the studnets do not know that they can use the "ask a prefect" board for complaints [01:32] or like u said [01:32] they might be afraid [01:32] embarrased [01:32] Cal, I think some of them don't [01:32] aye [01:32] i thinks it self explanatory after you read for a while [01:32] *** [Latona] (princess@wdcax18-055.dialup.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: And besides you're probably holding hands with some skinny pretty girl who likes to talk about bands...) [01:32] correct [01:32] exactly [01:32] *** [Zara] (ZarZar@dialup-64.154.236.200.Dial1.SanAntonio1.Level3.net) Quit (Quit: I don't know half of you as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. Good-Bye!! ;)) [01:32] like that unsorted guy who was claiming for answers to his post one after another [01:32] i think they are--for a while, when anyone asked they lost points for it [01:33] lost points for what? [01:33] yes, for what? [01:33] no, but sometimes people really have a question and don't know that it's ok to ask, so they make mistakes that could be avoided [01:33] ya that i agree with ^^^ [01:33] they dont know its ok to ask [01:34] right, so they need to know that the "ask a prefect" board is to place to ask WHATEVER they want [01:34] they're afraid too [01:34] a while back people would get criticized if they asked questions that were in the FAQ--especially when they were new [01:34] can they email the prefects with the questions as an alternative to the board? [01:34] becuase if thye cant that stopes the embarrasment factor [01:34] I think a problem might be that some people who are new are also new to internet etiquette. Maybe that could be worked into the FAW? I know HP4GU has a nice explaing page. [01:34] *FAQ; explaining [01:34] as far as I'm concerned they can email me [01:35] yep - but these things need to be done, people!! [01:35] hmmm [01:35] thats the harder part [01:35] that's a good idea claire [01:35] we have a major problem that the existing means for communication are not used effectively [01:35] zeek students can ALWAYS contact a prefect personally, teh ask a prefect board was created so that student can get help quickly [01:35] exactly Rames [01:36] cal i knew that [01:36] we need to tell people and remind them somewhere of the means of communication in hol [01:36] what i meant was what if they didnt want to ask a prefect nessicerily [01:36] like if they knew them [01:36] * Zeek shrugs. [01:36] i dunno [01:37] I don't understand what you mean, zeek [01:37] well, prefects have been elected to help their housemates and to be the voice of the students to the profs [01:37] so? [01:37] so zeek, if they don't want to ask a prefect--who would they ask [01:37] ok [01:37] i dont know [01:37] thats what im saying [01:37] ...? [01:37] *** Merlinda (gandalf_du@72.gardena-02rh15rt.ca.dial-access.att.net) has joined #titan [01:37] we could set up a irc channel for help [01:37] just an idea [01:37] some people can't access irc though [01:37] there are MANY prefects, you can ask a prefect from any house, our post on teh board and see who answers you first [01:37] but I dont think they will use that too often neither [01:38] true [01:38] also with the boards the past questions are there to be viewed by all [01:39] are u saying that as a possitive or negative thing, cal? [01:39] good thing [01:39] indeed [01:39] k [01:39] that's true--maybe we just need to remind everyone more often that those boards are there [01:39] but how? [01:39] exactly [01:39] like the announcement of the week [01:39] with announcments? [01:39] like if you have thr "broom" question, you might see that there is already a post on that and you don't even need to ask [01:39] a simple post should [01:40] and if we post something on our house boards as well--some stay in their house more than HOL [01:40] yes... [01:41] that's a good idea eeyore [01:41] So...we could have "Ask a Prefect" boards in each house? [01:41] someone most likely asked this already...but is there a place where all the questions are documented...from the ask a prefect board? cuase if there isnt there could be a link with a database(wrong word) of all the questions like a faq except all of them and then they could check that before they have to ask anyone. [01:41] well, what we could do is to set up a periodical HOL Newsletter edited by prefects of all four houses, that might be published by HOL newspapers (TSB, Q&I) and sent to all HOL members by email - students may be able to subscribe to it [01:41] that would knock out the being afraid or embarrased [01:41] maybe we should remove the sticky post on teh prefects board, teh one that says: BEFORE YOU ASK..., maybe students are afraid to ask a question unless they have read all the rules. perosnally I don't care answering teh "broom" question 20 times as long as I am helping someone [01:41] tsb probably would be willing to publish something of that sort [01:41] you could have precomposed posts for regular questions cal ; [01:41] yes that's a good idea, slytherin already has a "aska prefect" house board [01:42] lol argie [01:42] good idea cal--I think that note scares some off [01:42] so we could have more boards [01:42] spread out [01:42] we just have to put it on use again [01:42] yes Niche [01:42] and get rid of boards and thingies that are no longer in use [01:42] we need to tell the students that ASK A PREFECT is teh place to be! ;) [01:43] Sometimes even _I_ get lost in the boards LOL [01:43] lol! [01:43] what boards do you mean Holly? [01:43] Ask a prefect, where all the hot parties take place-- ok no. [01:43] All ;) [01:43] lol [01:43] lol niche [01:43] * Pippin snorts [01:43] lol [01:43] lol [01:43] lol [01:43] Niche you are such a sillyhead [01:43] Laughs Out Loud [01:43] * Zeek rolls his eyes. [01:43] * Zeek chases after them. [01:43] *nods* Or maybe something like "If you looked in all those places and couldn't find the answer, feel free to ask. And don't worry, we dwon't be mad if it -actually- was in there, just as long as you tried." could be added. Because I know I'm always worrie [01:43] d it -was- somewhere obvious and I skipped over. [01:44] me too [01:44] hehe I know, Pippin. [01:44] * Pippin winks at Niche [01:44] yes Claire, I think ask a prefect shoudl be the place where students could ask ANYTHING without fear of being told that they are spamming or their question was asked before etc [01:44] Stop winking at my wife in law and non biological HOL sister! [01:45] o_O [01:45] I didn't think you were the jealous type Holly ;-) [01:45] I am, VERY jealous ;) [01:45] the problem with all these, "they could read that and then not have a problem" ideas are that no matter what, people are NOT going to just sit there and read through every post/question/etc to see if theirs has already been answered. So, they ask the question they have and then 10 or so HOLers attack them for not reading the FAQs or not knowing every nook and cranny of the forums. Thus leading to people being frightened and to keep t [01:45] coughofftopiccough [01:46] *** Tbyrd (seductiveg@ACA2D3F5.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [01:46] *** Tbyrd has left IRC [01:46] thats why, erik, i was saying we should have a datebase of all the questions [01:46] then [01:46] they could consult that [01:46] people get scared around here easily [01:46] aye [01:46] Isn't the FAQ already the database? [01:46] but they WOULDN'T Zeek.. that's what I'm saying [01:46] zeek, i thin erik has a good point. instead of telling someone they should have read the whatever, isn't it easier to just answer the question? [01:46] people don't have the time [01:46] yes Zeek, good idea, but someone must do that :) [01:46] yes i know [01:47] *G* [01:47] or the dedication.. to want to look through it all [01:47] not a matter of time, Erik [01:47] erik they would if it was easy to use [01:47] yes, that! [01:47] they are lazy [01:47] People are lazy. [01:47] yes, that! [01:47] yes [01:47] true [01:47] ppl wouldn't read it... i mean i didn't read the faq's till 5 months after i started hol [01:47] very true [01:47] zeek, i thin erik has a good point. instead of telling someone they should have read the whatever, isn't it easier to just answer the question? EXACTLY!!! [01:47] we can answer the question and THEN refer them to the FAQ [01:47] so a newsletter might be helpful [01:47] * CalAngel high fives Eeyore [01:47] a newsletter??? [01:47] what? [01:47] right--so do we each post something in our houses [01:47] not necceserly tho [01:47] scroll up *g* [01:48] i like the newsletter idea [01:48] I give you an example [01:48] of what. [01:48] the HOL News page has been announced in Announcements [01:48] It is linked on every single HOL page under "news" [01:49] Rames, how hard is it to send an email to each student? [01:49] but I asked around this week - about 1/2 of the active people here on IRC never ever visited it [01:49] well there are a couple of thoussand of them ;) [01:49] i go there :) [01:49] if we did something with a list of where to find things, they might see it in their email before they find it on the boards. [01:49] impossible, Eeyore - they need to subscribe for it - or by auto-responder [01:49] Eeyore I don't think that an email to everyone is worth teh trouble, they will just ead it and forget it [01:49] I do not send out bulk-emails anymore [01:50] no Cal! [01:50] ok [01:50] not the ones who want to be active and are lost [01:50] the others are not the problem [01:50] it works well for gryff... we have email updates and without them i would be lost [01:50] ookay, my bad [01:50] do they sign up for it kerry--or how do you do it [01:51] sing up through yahoo [01:51] ? [01:51] sign* [01:51] lol [01:51] i can't type shush [01:51] lol [01:51] i got that--but i still don't know about the sign up thing [01:51] Ok here is the deal....Do we ALL agree that students should be allowed to ask WHATEVER they want on teh ask a prefect board without being told off for their post? [01:52] you can sign up for a service, Eeyore [01:52] YES [01:52] i agree [01:52] you don't get stuff automatically, cause this ALWAYS is too much work for the admin here [01:52] Cal, as long as it isnt off topic, or innapropriate (obviously) [01:52] Rames, you should make the HOL News page appear on the homepage to the HOL Portal site. That way, it would be more likely to be viewed because people would see it without having to *look* for it. [01:52] MILLIONS of emails bounce back etc [01:52] the yes was for cal's question [01:52] yup [01:52] erik isnt it? [01:53] the link is [01:53] Cal, as long as it isnt off topic, or innapropriate (obviously) of course [01:53] and then, Erik - the HOL portal page is already crowded with links - people need to find all the areas [01:53] I'm saying the actual page.. [01:53] that's true, Rames [01:53] we have SO MANY things here, hardly every tenth has ever seen [01:53] and then, Erik - the HOL portal page is already crowded with links - people need to find all the areas <---that may be why its so hard to find everything in the first place [01:53] cause they got no clue about its existence [01:53] Asking a question on the Ask a Prefect board is fine, its when they post 20 times in every single board that is extremely irritating and unhelpful [01:53] exactly [01:53] mmm [01:54] ok then if most of ya'll agree that the students can ask whatever they want, the stickky post should be removed and SOMEHOW the students need to be told that the ask a prefect board is now accessible to them without repercussion [01:54] * Erik nods. [01:54] agreed [01:54] another sticky post? [01:54] yes Ker!! that's agreat idea! [01:54] no--it needs to be on the announcements and maybe on each house board [01:54] :D [01:54] we can put a new sticky post [01:55] *feels all special now* [01:55] yes eeyore everywhere, but a new sticky post is a good idea too [01:55] :) [01:55] ok [01:55] So can that be done [01:55] ? [01:55] Yeah, and tell them that it IS ok to ask questions no matter how trivial or embarrassing or unsure they are/think the question might be. [01:55] *nods* [01:55] reminder: the key is that active students, and those who want to be active, know about what's going on and what the can do, are expected to do etc. - NOT the ones who don't care [01:56] yes [01:56] so we post everywhere [01:56] indeed [01:56] they will see it [01:56] incl. those who are mainly interested in classes, and YES - there are many of them [01:56] IF they dont care then why would they ask questions....? [01:57] so who takes care of the sticky note [01:57] also we NEED to have the students STOP posting their questions all over the place [01:57] oh ok [01:57] incl. those who have no time or money to log on every day [01:57] incl. those who are scared to chat or post much - many!! [01:57] then u could post on each board not to ask questions here...and point them to the ask a prefect board? [01:57] if u think people might be embarrassed about asking certain questions, maybe we could make some sort of way that they are annonomous when they ask it..? [01:57] i've got countless pms... the same old i'm to scared to post blah [01:58] *holds back the joke* [01:58] * ClaireSilverthorne thinks this is a wonderful, wonderful idea! ^_^ [01:58] oooh Crooksie nice! [01:58] i understand the reason for the anon part, but i'm not sure that's a good ide [01:58] is that possible tho [01:58] ok but Rames this newsletter idea is not something that would solve the problem now. I am not a prof, i don't take a month to do things *g* by TOMORROW, I want posts everywhere and teh ask a prefect board revamped for students with questions and complaints. This is NOT a hard thing for us to do! [01:58] I don't want any anonymous people posting on my Common Room [01:58] Crooksie, there have not been taken point for Spamming for at least 3 months - the spam rule has been removed from the house point rules [01:58] yah...people might come in asking really rude or pointless questions if we do that.. [01:58] people I cant keep me eyes open anymore �I [01:58] Me be going to bed [01:59] you could end up with people asking just to be annoying, knowing that we wouldn't know who it was [01:59] Good luck with the rest of the meeting! [01:59] * Erik chuckles at nevvie [01:59] Goodnight Holly! I'll look after Niche for you ;-) hehehe [01:59] yes.. [01:59] Yeah, I think the anonymous thing could easily be abused... [01:59] Grrrr Pippin! [01:59] easily [01:59] it is nothing wrong with asking a question - even if some call it silly - it isn't :) [01:59] *giggles* [01:59] Watch it, shes a death eater! [01:59] bye St. Holly :) [01:59] Nahhhhh she's a cute ickle bunny [01:59] bye holly [01:59] bye [01:59] Bye Holy! [01:59] ahhh bunny! [01:59] Holly* [01:59] lol [01:59] Laughs Out Loud [01:59] bye holly [01:59] bye Holly :) [01:59] lol [01:59] ~later, Holly!! [01:59] Holy holly, eh Ramesey? [01:59] * Zeek jumps into kims arms [01:59] ;) [02:00] ye :) [02:00] :D [02:00] :D [02:00] adiosssss-s-s! [02:00] bye hollssss! [02:00] *** Holly (bozeoog@qn-213-73-191-225.quicknet.nl) has left #titan [02:01] so - can anyone please sum up what we should do now? [02:01] yes [02:01] I can [02:01] Worship me? *blinks cutely* [02:01] haha!! [02:01] besides the obvious, Nevvie :)) [02:01] lol [02:01] lol [02:01] lol nevvie [02:01] we need to have ask a prefect boards in every house.... [02:01] * Pippin chuckles [02:01] LOL [02:01] :D [02:01] yes [02:01] cal but that is tedious for the prefects [02:01] to check all the boards [02:01] no its not, its our job [02:02] its 2 boards [02:02] yes but u could make it easier [02:02] But I think each house would check its own board [02:02] well ya [02:02] then it wouldn't be too tedious [02:02] hence the 'house' part [02:02] if we only focus on the slytherins, for instance, it goes easier [02:02] agreed [02:02] But some people do not leave their house boards much, and they might want to ask questions... [02:02] * Pippin will make an Ask the Prefect board in the Ravenclaw Common Room right now [02:02] oh ok merl [02:02] 2-we need to remove the intimidating sticky post on teh hol ask a prefect board [02:02] yep :) [02:02] which post is taht [02:03] * Zeek is stupid. [02:03] the before u ask one? [02:03] hehehhe [02:03] The "BEFORE YOU ASK...." [02:03] *nods* [02:03] by tona [02:03] lol [02:03] ya [02:03] once u open it [02:03] the big red bold letters [02:03] yes [02:03]